05/05/1995 01:10 PM House JUD

 CSSB 26(FIN) - DEADLY WEAPON OFFENSES BY JUVENILES                          
                                                                               
 Number 140                                                                    
                                                                               
 PATRICIA HAGGERTY, Administrative Assistant, Senator Dave Donley,             
 introduced the bill.  Senate Bill 26 treats minors who are over 14            
 as adults when they commit a second violent offense using a deadly            
 weapon.  The bill provides for an automatic waiver of juvenile                
 jurisdiction and prosecution of minors 14 and over into adult                 
 court.  SB 26 does not require any specified punishment or                    
 mandatory sentence.  The sentence is at the discretion of the                 
 judge.  A minor sentenced in adult court through this means will              
 have the ability to petition the superior court to seal the record            
 of all criminal proceedings, if provisions of the court are                   
 fulfilled, but a minor convicted in Sections 1 or 2 of this bill              
 will never have the opportunity to have records sealed.                       
                                                                               
 MS. HAGGERTY stated there is a clear problem with juveniles                   
 bringing guns and weapons to schools and public places.  School               
 employees and the police are concerned that the juvenile process              
 does not offer a deterrent to this dangerous behavior.  Students              
 can be expelled for one year for having a firearm on school                   
 property, but we are finding that they re-enroll in the same                  
 district, in another school.  SB 26 will create a strong deterrent            
 to the repeated use of deadly weapons by juveniles.  SB 26 is                 
 supported by the National Education Association, the National Rifle           
 Association, the Juneau Police Department, Fairbanks Police                   
 Department, Anchorage Police Department, the Public Safety                    
 Employees Association, and the Spenard Community Council.                     
                                                                               
 GREG MCDONALD, Secretary-Treasurer, Public Safety Employees                   
 Association (PSEA), stated that the people he represents are                  
 looking at this bill to help them with the growing problem of                 
 juvenile violent crime.  While we recognize that this is a strong             
 measure for the treatment of juveniles, we feel that the bill is              
 being fair and that it (indisc.) the 14-year-old that is for the              
 second crime involving weapons, and we feel strongly that we need             
 to do something to deter this.  This is for the second offense.               
 These kids have been tried and convicted of their first offense               
 under the juvenile system.  Obviously it has failed if they are               
 back again with a second crime involving a weapon, and it is                  
 limited to the felony charges.                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked if she heard the testimony correctly              
 that this will stay with them for the rest of their lives.  Is that           
 correct?                                                                      
                                                                               
 MS. HAGGERTY answered that if the juvenile is convicted under                 
 Section 1 or 2, it will stay on their record.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 240                                                                    
                                                                               
 MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division,                  
 Department of Law, stated that the Administration is opposed to               
 this bill because of the 14- and 15-year-olds that would be                   
 automatically waived, treated as adults and left with convictions             
 on their adult records.  Last year, SB 54 went through the                    
 legislature, and in fact, took two years to do it, and it addressed           
 the issue of juvenile waiver.  There was, at one time, a provision            
 for automatic waiver, for 14 years of age and older.  Ultimately,             
 what was passed was an automatic waiver for 16 years and older for            
 unclassified felonies or class A felonies or arson.  This bill has            
 been before the legislature before and did not pass last session.             
 An offense against a person could be either the class A misdemeanor           
 of reckless endangerment.  The fact that it is not limited to                 
 serious felony offense but can include even the most minor                    
 misdemeanor and the fact that it does bring in 14- and 15-year-               
 olds, the Administration does not support the bill.                           
                                                                               
 MS. KNUTH also noted that she has spoken with the Juneau Police               
 Department and the Anchorage Police Department, and they do not               
 support the automatic waiver of 14- and 15-year-olds, and they,               
 like the Administration, are concerned about juvenile violent                 
 crime, and they believe it should be responded to, as does the                
 Administration, but automatic waiver that goes this far is                    
 something that people do not believe is appropriate at this time.             
 The Administration does believe that we need to look wholesale at             
 juvenile justice, that we have got a problem that has leaked to the           
 forefront, and needs to be addressed.  But instead of a patchwork             
 approach where we look at joyriding, we look at offenses involving            
 guns, and there is one other automatic waiver pending this session.           
 Instead of doing it just one issue at a time, we believe that a               
 group of people should get together and come up with a more uniform           
 and more considered policy direction to go with for juvenile                  
 justice.                                                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN PORTER said the first time he read this, he thought it was           
 only narrowed to felonies.  It requires a crime against a person              
 committed with a deadly weapon, having been previously adjudicated,           
 but would a misdemeanor be confined to that category?                         
                                                                               
 MS. KNUTH answered that all that is required is for it to be a                
 crime committed against a person, and that a deadly weapon was used           
 in the commission of the offense, not that that be an element of              
 it, and therefore, for reckless endangerment.  The crime is                   
 committed if the person recklessly engages in conduct which creates           
 substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person,                
 waiving a gun around would constitute the offense of reckless                 
 endangerment, and obviously is not a felony offense.                          
                                                                               
 ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner,               
 Department of Health and Social Services, stated that Margot has              
 given the Administration's testimony, and we were very much                   
 involved in the debate on SB 54, the juvenile waiver bill last                
 year, and we are consistently opposed to the automatic waiver                 
 provisions for children under 16.  We feel comfortable with that              
 position today, and therefore go on record as being opposed to this           
 bill.                                                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said we do automatically waive 16-year-olds,            
 but it is the 14- and 15-year-olds that we are objecting to.  We do           
 not just slap their hands and put them back out on the street do              
 we?                                                                           
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN PORTER said, yes, just about.                                        
                                                                               
 MR. LINDSTROM explained that there are existing provisions where a            
 14- or 15-year-old could be waived into adult court through                   
 existing procedures that have been on the books for a long time.              
 He was not suggesting for one moment that there could not be a                
 situation where that was appropriate.  It is the automatic aspect             
 of this bill that is troubling to the Department of Health and                
 Social Services.                                                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked how many 14- and 15-year-olds have                 
 actually been waived.                                                         
                                                                               
 MR. LINDSTROM asked his staff, Kathy Tibbles, to come forward and             
 answer that.                                                                  
                                                                               
 KATHY TIBBLES, Division of Family and Youth Services, Department of           
 Health and Social Services, said they are not able to provide data            
 about how many kids would fall under this particular provision.               
 Our system will record prior adjudications, but for the major                 
 offense that the juvenile was adjudicated for at that time, perhaps           
 burglary, or whatever, not whether it involved use of a deadly                
 weapon.  We have a new system we are working on and eventually we             
 can answer that, but right now we cannot even tell how many                   
 juveniles would fall under this.  We do not think there are very              
 many, but we do not have the combination of the deadly weapons use            
 along with the charge.                                                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked, without referring to statistics,  if              
 she knew of any.                                                              
                                                                               
 MS. TIBBLES said she did not personally know of any.                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY hoped somebody in this room had somewhat of             
 an answer.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 370                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said that being a longstanding proponent of              
 peer evaluation, he wanted to invite the committee's attention to             
 the letter from Nicolette Davis, a senior from Lathrop.  She does             
 not want concealed weapons allowed.  She says that if you are held            
 accountable for your behavior, maybe your behavior will change.               
 "Out of the mouths of babes" might apply here.                                
                                                                               
 LEE ANN LUCAS, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner,                 
 Department of Public Safety, stated the department's position.                
 They do share the concern with the Departments of Law and Health              
 and Social Services.  For automatic waiver of 14-and 15-year-olds,            
 we feel provisions are present that were implemented through SB 54            
 last year, provides for waiving of those 14- and 15-year-olds on a            
 case-by-case basis.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 400                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. HAGGERTY wanted to clarify, in response to the question earlier           
 about sealing of records.  A case sent to adult court under this              
 bill would strictly be a case of a second offense of a minor 14 and           
 over.  In adult court, the judge would have discretion of the                 
 sentence or possible treatment, or waiver of all punishments,                 
 depending on the decision of the court in that case.  All cases               
 coming to court will not become a matter of public record, only               
 those classified under Sections 1 and 2.                                      
                                                                               
 MR. MACDONALD differed with the Department of Law.  We also                   
 represent the Juneau Police Department.  The police officers of the           
 Juneau Police Department support this.                                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said the fiscal note is zero, so they must               
 anticipate this to include a relatively small group of people.  He            
 felt the message to be worth the price.  He then made a motion to             
 move CSSB 26(FIN) out of committee with individual recommendations            
 and attached fiscal notes.  Hearing no objection, the bill moved.